TSSAA Region alignment and classification
10/28/2017 3:24:00 PM
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I have been looking at the regions that have posted results, and it seems as if there is a great disparity in the number of teams in each region. Further, there is an even greater disparity in what type of team can qualify between the two classifications. Does the TSSAA have a remedy to make thing a bit more equitable for either situation? This seems all screwed up to me.
I have been looking at the regions that have posted results, and it seems as if there is a great disparity in the number of teams in each region. Further, there is an even greater disparity in what type of team can qualify between the two classifications. Does the TSSAA have a remedy to make thing a bit more equitable for either situation? This seems all screwed up to me.
10/29/2017 11:40:08 AM
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Well if your talking about the times being slower to qualify for state in the small school division your probably right . But I will say their are more teams forming now in the small division because they now have a chance to compete and possibly go to state because they are now competing against public schools and schools more their size .After talking to some small school coaches they believe this will help grow our sport .And that's what you want .I say magnet schools still have an advantage although they say they do not recruit they can still draw from their county as opposed to the public schools .And yes you have to be accepted and have the grades to get into the magnet schools but high Gpa's and running go together. And I have noticed their are more teams in some of the big school regions, maybe they should increase the qualifying to maybe the top 5 teams and top 20 individuals. Hear say TSSAA almost put the magnet schools in with the private.
Well if your talking about the times being slower to qualify for state in the small school division your probably right . But I will say their are more teams forming now in the small division because they now have a chance to compete and possibly go to state because they are now competing against public schools and schools more their size .After talking to some small school coaches they believe this will help grow our sport .And that's what you want .I say magnet schools still have an advantage although they say they do not recruit they can still draw from their county as opposed to the public schools .And yes you have to be accepted and have the grades to get into the magnet schools but high Gpa's and running go together. And I have noticed their are more teams in some of the big school regions, maybe they should increase the qualifying to maybe the top 5 teams and top 20 individuals. Hear say TSSAA almost put the magnet schools in with the private.
10/31/2017 12:21:10 PM
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@rush123 Everyone wants to grow the sport, but everyone also wants a level playing field. One region had 8 teams and another had 15. Maybe by adding teams that qualify would help, but it would also diminish the value of qualifying. Maybe re-align the regions and maybe make a third classification to let the schools between 1000 and 1400 (just throwing numbers out without looking at actual enrollments)compete against their own size.
@rush123 Everyone wants to grow the sport, but everyone also wants a level playing field. One region had 8 teams and another had 15. Maybe by adding teams that qualify would help, but it would also diminish the value of qualifying. Maybe re-align the regions and maybe make a third classification to let the schools between 1000 and 1400 (just throwing numbers out without looking at actual enrollments)compete against their own size.
10/31/2017 12:51:09 PM
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@MistercoachG Sometimes the size of the school doesn't matter. We are a large school, but I can't get anyone to run. We have 9 boys and 2 girls. I feel disadvantage to have a small team. I really don't know if there is a real solution to fix things across the board.
@MistercoachG
Sometimes the size of the school doesn't matter. We are a large school, but I can't get anyone to run. We have 9 boys and 2 girls. I feel disadvantage to have a small team. I really don't know if there is a real solution to fix things across the board.
10/31/2017 1:26:34 PM
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@marathonlance I am with you on not knowing the solution. That is why I am asking here. Soccer gives me XC guys, but not girls. In the spring, it is the opposite. Participation is low across the board. I went to a school with half the enrollment of the one I am coaching at, but we had more kids then than our much bigger school here has now. Granted, that was 30 years ago.
@marathonlance I am with you on not knowing the solution. That is why I am asking here. Soccer gives me XC guys, but not girls. In the spring, it is the opposite. Participation is low across the board. I went to a school with half the enrollment of the one I am coaching at, but we had more kids then than our much bigger school here has now. Granted, that was 30 years ago.
11/01/2017 5:27:18 AM
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[quote=MistercoachG]@marathonlance I am with you on not knowing the solution. That is why I am asking here. Soccer gives me XC guys, but not girls. In the spring, it is the opposite. Participation is low across the board. I went to a school with half the enrollment of the one I am coaching at, but we had more kids then than our much bigger school here has now. Granted, that was 30 years ago.[/quote] @MistercoachG So, what were the limitations of the prior classification system as it relates to optimizing competition and fairness in qualifying for state? I think the new system will possibly create a larger pool of teams for the smallest of the small schools but quality of competition will be low. The truly large schools will be unaffected but schools that had been toward the top of the old AA classification may struggle to stay competitive. Schools between 900 and 1400 have it hardest over time compared to the really large schools...especially those with $. Tradition and great coaching help, but when your team draws 40 kids and another draws twice that, your top 7 talent pool will be lower over a period of years. Yes, always exceptions but classification system has to be based on average over time. It would seem that the A-AA and AAA system was working over a period of many years. When combined with enforcement of coaching regulations and recruitment rules, that system had far fewer flaws. Building team size and depth is another discussion because, in my opinion, it pivots around factors that lead to parents over-valuing football at a young age and having youth coaches that either don't know what they are doing or they are so driven that they break those with potential. Ironically, the answer may be found in football. In areas of the country where the HS fb coach has influence over youth coaching and play calling, there is better development by the time the kid is in hs. The same would be true for xc. Let the hs coach set the training and expand the age range of kids that can run for the school.
MistercoachG wrote:
@marathonlance I am with you on not knowing the solution. That is why I am asking here. Soccer gives me XC guys, but not girls. In the spring, it is the opposite. Participation is low across the board. I went to a school with half the enrollment of the one I am coaching at, but we had more kids then than our much bigger school here has now. Granted, that was 30 years ago.


@MistercoachG

So, what were the limitations of the prior classification system as it relates to optimizing competition and fairness in qualifying for state? I think the new system will possibly create a larger pool of teams for the smallest of the small schools but quality of competition will be low. The truly large schools will be unaffected but schools that had been toward the top of the old AA classification may struggle to stay competitive. Schools between 900 and 1400 have it hardest over time compared to the really large schools...especially those with $. Tradition and great coaching help, but when your team draws 40 kids and another draws twice that, your top 7 talent pool will be lower over a period of years. Yes, always exceptions but classification system has to be based on average over time. It would seem that the A-AA and AAA system was working over a period of many years. When combined with enforcement of coaching regulations and recruitment rules, that system had far fewer flaws. Building team size and depth is another discussion because, in my opinion, it pivots around factors that lead to parents over-valuing football at a young age and having youth coaches that either don't know what they are doing or they are so driven that they break those with potential. Ironically, the answer may be found in football. In areas of the country where the HS fb coach has influence over youth coaching and play calling, there is better development by the time the kid is in hs. The same would be true for xc. Let the hs coach set the training and expand the age range of kids that can run for the school.
11/28/2017 10:36:54 AM
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@RothRE I just want to remind everyone what happened last spring at the coaches meeting at the state track meet. http://tn.milesplit.com/discussion/topics/146651 I agree that with the current two class system the smaller schools now feel like they have a chance to qualify until those schools at 760 and above have to compete against schools of 2000+. It was however voted that we would push for a 3 class system divided by participating schools. There is some research to be done about which schools will not be included in the split.
@RothRE I just want to remind everyone what happened last spring at the coaches meeting at the state track meet.

http://tn.milesplit.com/discussion/topics/146651

I agree that with the current two class system the smaller schools now feel like they have a chance to qualify until those schools at 760 and above have to compete against schools of 2000+. It was however voted that we would push for a 3 class system divided by participating schools. There is some research to be done about which schools will not be included in the split.
11/28/2017 12:05:49 PM
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All coaches need to make the effort to attend the coaches clinic hosted by Kindersports in January. There will be a session giving information about forming a state coaches association. THIS will be one of our best avenues to make changes that we feel need to be made. Along with this, proposed changes are going to need to have a united front. Doing what is best for both XC and track for athletes at ALL levels.
All coaches need to make the effort to attend the coaches clinic hosted by Kindersports in January. There will be a session giving information about forming a state coaches association. THIS will be one of our best avenues to make changes that we feel need to be made. Along with this, proposed changes are going to need to have a united front. Doing what is best for both XC and track for athletes at ALL levels.
12/14/2017 7:47:26 AM
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[quote=enh55]All coaches need to make the effort to attend the coaches clinic hosted by Kindersports in January. There will be a session giving information about forming a state coaches association. THIS will be one of our best avenues to make changes that we feel need to be made. Along with this, proposed changes are going to need to have a united front. Doing what is best for both XC and track for athletes at ALL levels.[/quote] @enh55 I'm pretty sure we did this (at least for XC) about 10-15 years ago. The state meet used to be quite the pathetic meet as far as atmosphere goes, and we united our voices and came up with suggestions (better awards platform, loud speaker(s), course preview, vendors, etc.), and TSSAA made the adjustments. Unfortunately, TSSAA does not really consider XC when making any sporting decisions. So yes, you coaches get together and get things done. It's worked before.
nh55 wrote:
All coaches need to make the effort to attend the coaches clinic hosted by Kindersports in January. There will be a session giving information about forming a state coaches association. THIS will be one of our best avenues to make changes that we feel need to be made. Along with this, proposed changes are going to need to have a united front. Doing what is best for both XC and track for athletes at ALL levels.


@enh55

I'm pretty sure we did this (at least for XC) about 10-15 years ago. The state meet used to be quite the pathetic meet as far as atmosphere goes, and we united our voices and came up with suggestions (better awards platform, loud speaker(s), course preview, vendors, etc.), and TSSAA made the adjustments.

Unfortunately, TSSAA does not really consider XC when making any sporting decisions. So yes, you coaches get together and get things done. It's worked before.
12/15/2017 4:22:33 PM
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@FKABolton That was in 2003 at the old Holiday Inn Brentwood. That ushered in a number of changes, including changing to 5k a year or two later.
@FKABolton

That was in 2003 at the old Holiday Inn Brentwood. That ushered in a number of changes, including changing to 5k a year or two later.

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